I've been thinking about a small 5 man Wolf Scout pack with sniper rifles recently. In fact, they could work a heck of a lot better than the current 5 Wolf Scouts with melta gun load out.The problem with Wolf Scouts is that they're a melta-cide unit. Aka: Fire melta gun and die!
Either they miss what they're shooting at, hit it and blow it up and/or get stuck into close combat. Whatever happens, they die like dogs.
Although sometimes, if your Behind Enemy Lines roll is bad, they get stranded for the whole game. In rare instances, they blow something up... then get stranded in the enemy deployment zone for the rest of the game.
So how about making them more versatile with some Sniper Rifles!
Now you can choose to send them to their deaths with a bit of meltacide. Or you can infiltrate them into some woods (don't forget that have the Scout ability too!) and use them as Snipers with BS4 compared to the regular Space Marine Scouts BS3. They also get Acute Senses and Counter Attack, even if they have to give up one of their weapons for the Sniper Rifle.
Wait, how you can you have a melta gun and a sniper rifle?
Glad you asked!
Give them all sniper rifles for +3pts each.
These replace their close combat weapons.
Give 1 a melta gun for +10pts. This replaces his bolt pistol.
See what I did there?
So now you've got the regular 5 Wolf Scouts with a melta gun, but for + 15pts, they all got sniper rifles, allowing you to field them in a choice of 2 roles for your games.
They were 85pts but now come to a nice round 100pts.
I'm going to build another 5 man Wolf Scout pack, but with tiny magnets drilled into their backs, then get some Sniper Rifles from Heresy Miniatures and fit these with tiny magnets too. Then I can just clip the rifles on and off as I need them, provided I have the points.
What do you guys think? Or are Wolf Scouts simply not worth taking when Land Speeders are better for the points in this game of mechanised armies?
33 comments:
December 22, 2010 at 12:49 PM
wolf scouts with sniper riffles is an idea i have been toying with, as alot of people i play, dont tend to use a huge amount of vehicles. most of time i end up blowing up a rhino or something and then the scouts get blown away. with riffles you can just bring them on and put them in cover and shoot away if theres nothing worth going after. Also as i dont tend to have any high value targets on the board my rhino normally dont last long so having a unit 12-18" away from his deployment zone on turn 1 to take some fire and let my gray hunters zoom up the board would be good
December 22, 2010 at 1:11 PM
I really like this idea, I usually do the Melta-gun + Melta bomb, but I really like this set up. I may have to give it a try for a few games.
Thanks for the post.
December 22, 2010 at 2:11 PM
Scouts vs. speeders? I favor scouts. Wolf Scouts are superior to regular scouts, whereas SW speeders are just the same as in the codex. Wherever possible, I like to field units that outstrip their contemporaries, as that seems to provide the best value for the points. Besides, speeders can't run up and stab you in the head. Scouts just feel more Wolfy.
December 22, 2010 at 2:15 PM
Oh, and while we're on the topic, has anyone tried to field a massive (10+) unit of scouts tricked out for melee? It seems that between 2 power weapons, MOW, a Wolf Guard and (ominous thunder) a Wolf Priest with Hunter Saga, you could really cause some filled-up pants! If anyone's tried to use mass Scouts as a second melee front, please post and let me know how it went!
December 22, 2010 at 2:36 PM
I take always 5 Scouts with Melter + Wolfguard with Wolfclaw, Combi melta and meltabomb,
I normaly try to get into a multiple combat with my target (normally a tank ) and a unit, which will not die in the first round. Normally they are not strung enough to kill a 10Man squad but they prevent them from
I am not sniper, normally my scouts get shot or punched to death after they killed their first target. So not good for Behind Enemy lines, but as infiltrators it could be really good ....
December 22, 2010 at 2:54 PM
IF I take sniper scouts, and I don't think I would... :) I would field them in a larger unit to make sure they had a greater effect. 5 dudes is not enough in my opinion.
I think I gotta go with the Landspeeder. Although it is funny when you "pin" that Nob Biker unit. :D
Also, where are our camo cloaks!?!
December 22, 2010 at 3:28 PM
I think Saga of the Hunter is our consolation prize for the camo cloaks, especially after the update.
December 22, 2010 at 3:44 PM
Yeah, SotH is not gonna be much use with a Sniper Squad. Lose infiltrate and scouts... no thanks. It does open up some possibilities tho.
December 22, 2010 at 8:22 PM
Who converted those scouts in the picture? Did they make a tutorial?
Either way, i lean towards scouts over speeders because i don't trust armor 10, even with a turbo boosting save.
December 22, 2010 at 10:13 PM
@ Gareth however it gives u the outflank special rule as well (SotH) so at least I think it makes up for infiltrate and scout if u take batle leader with soth then give ur scouts close combat gear and a melta gun other wise just put the sniper scouts in cover and add the battle leader into the squad later
December 22, 2010 at 10:42 PM
Great post and timing, I just finished building four wolf scouts with sniper rifles yesterday to test them out and I was stumped on what to give the fifth man. Can't wait to try this set-up.
December 23, 2010 at 12:27 AM
I use 5 scouts one melta gun, one power weapon, one MOW, and a wolf guard with combi melta/ wolfclaw and they always make there points back and i can wound allocate with this set up.
December 23, 2010 at 1:04 AM
Wolf Scouts have always been an option for me, however now that we have BEL and not OBEL I find that I include scouts with sniper rifles and a missile launcher or heavy bolter more often. Not every deployment works for sniper scouts and they will never be as good as marine scouts with Sergeant Telion his special rules and their upgrades.
My usual build would plasma pistols and a melta gun or a plasma gun but always with melta bombs. The Suicide Scouts would hunt tank on the back edge of the table but I noticed towards the end of 4th ed, opponents were expecting Wolf Scouts using OBEL to pop up from turn two onwards to hunt tank. Scouts became less effective. Having sniper rifles as an option keeps the tournament opponents on their toes as they can't plan for you choice of deployment and they d=don't know the scouts will be armed.
Anyone remember how much of a pain Eldar Scouts and Rangers were in 4th ed. Wolf Scouts cause just as much angst in 5th ed!
December 23, 2010 at 2:13 AM
Personally I don't see sniper rifles being that useful in 5th with their new rules even at BS4. If you have 10 scouts with sniper rifles you hit 6 times and wound 3, one of which rends. So on average you put a wound on a monstrous creature or kill 1-2 models. Combine that with the fact that you have to pay extra for sniper rifles and lose mobility to use them I can't really see any use for them other than fluff. IMHO our scouts with sniper rifles are worse than vanilla marine scouts with sniper rifles due to their position as an elite slot rather than troops. They won't cause much damage, waste their unique BEL ability and can't hold objectives.
December 23, 2010 at 4:11 AM
I view sniper rifles as insurance against a poor OBEL roll if I have points to spare. Can easily put 3 in the squad without losing any CC attacks (MOTW model gets one and the PP/PW models get the others)
December 23, 2010 at 7:33 AM
I wouldn't play against someone who tried to give one of their elites a *pair* of two-handed, rifle type weapons. Sorry, this whole article is a wash.
December 23, 2010 at 7:42 AM
December 23, 2010 at 7:43 AM
What makes you say that?
You can give a captain a relic blade ( a 2 handed weapon) and a storm shield. Also you can give a wolf guard 2 combi - bolters if you so wished. It is far from impossible to carry 2 weapons to get the job done in real life and its equally possible in 40k - as long as the rules allow it - and low and behold they do!
Thx for stopping by!
(tell your friends!)
December 23, 2010 at 8:00 AM
Depends really, the melta can provide flexability, but it can conflict a little. With one meltagun, they are not that effect at dealing with armour. They have a decent chance of hurting it, but it's a bit of a wildcard.
As for sniping, it prohibits you from taking wolf guard as they will be just leading. Could be cool though.
That being said, whether pinning and BS4 is worth those downsides is up to you. Pinning can be pretty hurtful on a critical unit and can really lay down the hurt on monsterious creatures. Thunder Wolf also have low enough leadership that being hit by these things can be a real threat.
Plus, the rules cover the melta and sniper pretty well; They can't shoot both at once, only one or the other and they cannot shoot the snipers the turn they arrive on the back. Not like they are duelwielding a sniper and melta, just marines don't actually need close combat weapons, a marine is dangerious unarmed and will probably use the weapon as a beater. They only need them to give the extra close combat attack in combination with a pistol.
So really, they can carry both, as the way they are used is not at all abusable (can't fire sniper and melta) and that the rules allow them to carry both.
December 23, 2010 at 10:28 AM
@Anonymous: "I wouldn't play against someone who tried to give one of their elites a *pair* of two-handed, rifle type weapons. Sorry, this whole article is a wash."
That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. I guess you don't like First Person Shooters or Mass Effect or pretty much any video game out there. It's not real life dude, settle down.
December 23, 2010 at 11:45 AM
I don't think 5 is going to be very effective, but someone above made a good point about getting a bad BEL role. For 15 points your 5 scouts could at least set up and start shooting at something rather then be out of the game possibly.
I ran 7 last night with melta/motw/mbs and attached a wolf guard with combi melta in a 1500 point game. My opponent had 2 rhinos parked by each other on a rear objective so I shot one and positioned my guys for a multi assault. I was able to destroy one rhino with shooting and the other in the multi assault with melta bombs. The unit was dead by next turn, however, those rhinos were out of sight from my Longfangs and being able to destroy those vehicles left the troops vulnerable to my Thunder Wolves and troops.
December 23, 2010 at 12:50 PM
I use the melta-cide unit in 1750+ games to great if not dominating effect. More than a few times they have been the sole reason behind a win. 5 man with a wolf guard wolf claw combi melta setup not only effects deployment on my opponents side but makes them fully on edge for objective placing.
With the 2 meltas statitically you will at least stun a tank or with the wolf claw an opponents LF or dev sqad becomes meat.
December 23, 2010 at 2:18 PM
@Anonymous: "I wouldn't play against someone who tried to give one of their elites a *pair* of two-handed, rifle type weapons. Sorry, this whole article is a wash."
Career Army guy here... do you think a dismounted infantryman carrying an AT4 is not going to carry a rifle? (He will carry both.)
FYI: AT4 is a real-life anti-armor weapon just like melta is a 40K anti-armor weapon.
Using a hypothetical evaluation of what you think is a "wash" probably should not be used to attack someone’s post...especially if the rules allow it.
December 23, 2010 at 2:25 PM
Okay boys, break it up.
Whoever he is, he certainly got thrown to the wolves.
December 23, 2010 at 4:00 PM
Sometimes LF have "blind spot" on the battlefield. It would be interesting to use the sniper scouts to cover that blind spot and trade the melta for a ML. The melta is a very short range weapon and you would lose 1 "gunner" in the shooting phase if stranded, while with the ML you can still shoot "accross the board" and cover that angle that your LF cant. Armour 14 is not that common on the field and our dual melta totting GH loaded rhino can usually deal with that problem. Our scouts are very powerful compare to the others and some people don't like to see them in fun game. Tournament being another story of course. Personnally I dont use scouts. I prefer to field 2 dread (rifledread and plasma dread). But that's me :P
Sometimes, I replace my LF with a predator (ac + lc) just to be different and throw my opponent of guard. I recommend you all to do that. You can't imagine your opponent's face when you field something completely different from the standard army list you run and it usually end up in a lot of fun at the end. Give it a try !
December 23, 2010 at 5:53 PM
*wipes bits of anonymous of his armour*
I think the best thing is to give it a whirl. Theoryhammer and mathhammer are both things that I think are golden, however, sometimes you just have to move the dudes around and roll some dice.
So you are having a squad somewhere in the mid~ or backfield and are sniping away. Then the Mg means you can scare away, or deal with, Armour that comes close.
Ya, it could work and I'd say give it a go. But do you need another mid~ or backfield unit that holds & threatens from there? Perhaps Greys and Fangs already do this for you....?
How about the Whirlwind?
The extra 12" range makes for much more ground being covered, especially if you are deployed in the middle of your long table edge.
The WW can hit stuff that is out of TLoS, whilst not being exposed itself.
It is that proverbial Italian armour in practise.
"The best armour is to be out of range"
The WW works well against big footprint stuff, including Bikerz and good size mobs. Whilst the Scouts suffer no inefficiencies at shooting small squads, which the WW does, perhaps the small squad is small enough for you to just kill outright anyway....?
Thoughts?
December 23, 2010 at 10:27 PM
@ marshsal wilhhelm idk I was just thinking of an idea I'm kinda new to the game in general and I have the codex and rule book after reading gareths comment the thought just popped in my head.
Thanks for the advice about wirlwinds I didn't knw they didn't need a Los
December 24, 2010 at 9:54 AM
Sniper Scouts, not as efficient as marine scouts. Movement hampers them as does terrain, but when they work they work well. However get a good round of shooting from them and watch your opponent target them or block their LoS so that they have to move and forgo shooting for a turn.
In my latest lists I use five Sniper Rifles a Bolter and either a Heavy Bolter or a Missile Launcher, mostly the Missile Launcher is used. This set-up works on the premise that the whole squad should be able to reach out and touch the enemy at long range.
December 27, 2010 at 11:29 AM
I think that the new rules specify that you can only cause one pinning test per firing unit per turn...this makes me want to back away from snipers in general. I went ahead and tried the mass 11-man outflanking scout melee mob over the weekend, and it absolutely killed! 10 guys with 2 power weapons and MOW, and 1 WG with nasty cc gear, and my enemy was caught in a scout/grey hunter melee sandwich. Add in some Long Fangs and there's not a safe place to hide on the entire board...
February 1, 2011 at 2:41 PM
I use 9 scouts with bp/ccw, 1 with meltagun, and a WG with power fist and combi-melta.
The big squad size makes it a CC threat and adds resilience. It is rare for the squad to be scratched in one turn. 2 melta shots + power fist attacks on the turn you enter usually means 1 dead enemy tank.
- Anaximander
November 23, 2011 at 1:40 PM
I would just take a close combat scout squad with power weapons and a melta that way they could come in on any board edge you want on a 3+ melta a valuable tank or charge an annoying devastator squad
November 2, 2012 at 5:20 AM
I think this is a great idea. Wolf scouts are extremely useful as snipers. I'm happy to see some one breaking away from the melta gun and close combat weapons the wolf scouts always have. I think they serve better purpose as snipers anyway, and they end up living a hell of a lot longer.
May 9, 2013 at 2:32 PM
I love wolf sniper. even with a low rof thy do the job for me. my army focuses on interlacing volley fire. grey hunters on forward footslog, long fangs missile support behind an ageis line and scouts to pester up close or hold cqc till the hunters can mop up.
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