No really, they do! Blood Claws are a terrible unit because in order for them to be any good, you have to take lots of them, have them led by a Wolf Guard and even better, a Wolf Priest to ensure that they inflict some damage in close combat.But what really makes them difficult is that they're going to eat up a lot of points and probably be on foot.
This has a knock on effect for the rest of your Space Wolves army who will have to support them.
Not only that, but your army is going to be weaker as a whole when you could have spent those points on something better.
I discovered this at my expense after a disastrous game against James' infamous Castling Marines.
They're actually painted in a Dark Angels scheme and 'counted as' a regular Codex Marines army. The reason I call them Castling Marines is because they Castle -that's all James every really does. But it works for him, even if it is boring as hell.
In our latest game the Blood Claws had to be rescued by some Grey Hunters, who then in turn needed to be rescued by the Blood Claws. So much for going easy on James!
It was one of those games when the Dice Gods turned against me and I could roll nothing but 1s and 2s...until that pinning check for the Grey Hunters getting out of their wrecked Rhino. Double 6. Although let's be honest, this is nothing new and I've often managed to turn these games around using good tactics.Then the Blood Claws failed to get out of the terrain and couldn't even charge the nearby combat squad.
Had the Grey Hunters been fine and the Blood Claws been fine, then the Assault Squad and Combat Squad you can see in this photo would have been wiped away, then the mass of Space Wolves would have got a Demolisher round from the Vindicator and a Plasma blast in the face, plus god knows what else from James' firebase.
Sure, I could have played better. There were a lot of things I could have done better. But the bottom line is that the Blood Claws forced me to change the way I play in order to make their 400pts of footsloggers do something for their points. As a result they got themselves into trouble and to make matters worse, got another squad into trouble as well.
Seriously, just stick to Grey Hunters in Rhinos and you cannot go wrong!
In my next game against James I had a far more well rounded 1750 points list as part of my warm up for Open War in October. But could I out-shoot the Castling Marines? Tune in tomorrow and find out!
23 comments:
October 7, 2010 at 12:16 PM
Castling is lame! I say this because I am on the receiving end and it keeps hammering me.
I agree totally about the blood claws, I have taken them a few times, and each time, I seem to be changing my strategy or throwing off my whole battle plan, just to charge them into combat! They are such a big points sink to make really effective. Grey Hunters are so much better it is ridiculous.
October 7, 2010 at 12:42 PM
I dont know grey hunters are uber-sauce but blood claws still have a purpose.I think if your playing an army like orks blood claws are your best bet.I run my blood claws in a squad of 5 with a flamer,wolf guard with combi-flamer/wolf claw attached they sit in a heavy bolter razorback.cheap and effective camp on objectives and if someone rushes them there going to be alot of attacks coming there way.
October 7, 2010 at 1:23 PM
I used to run logan grimnar in a big squad of claws with a fist WG. It was severely awesome! prefered enemy and +1 attack when you get to charge is awesome, if a little bit overkilly! If only you could get a wolf standard in there aswell! this is pretty much why i gave up on it. Too many points, logan is a bit of a pussy cat when all is said and done... and i fell in love with GH
October 7, 2010 at 1:30 PM
I've had good fun with a full squad of Blood Claws with a Wolf Priest/Ulrik. Yeah they aren't ever gonna be as good all round as GHs but they definitely serve a purpose. Preferred enemy and +2A on the charge is nothing to be sniffed at. You could put a full squad and Wolf Priest in a LR crusader and guarantee at least one devastating charge.
PS Adam did you get my email about those army pics you wanted?
October 7, 2010 at 1:45 PM
AutarchAndrew: Good call on the small squad of Blood Claws in a Razorback. I'm currently using Grey Hunters to do the same thing, but you're right -Blood Claws would be better at that.
Sheik: Nope, could you try sending again please.
October 7, 2010 at 3:52 PM
Unfortunately you're right. Back when they were cheaper than Hunters by about 4 points, a mass of them provided a block of cheap wounds that could (if it got the charge) cause damage even after being depleted.
Now that they're the same points cost as Hunters, and Hunters are now the premier Troops unit in the game, they're overpriced, underpowered and hence almost worthless (special builds like the above Razorback option aside).
October 7, 2010 at 4:00 PM
I use 'em all the time, and I love 'em! I usually run squads of 12-15. I give them a power weapon and a flamer (or 2 flamers with 15 BC), and I throw in a WG with Fist and Wolf Priest. So, yes, it is exactly as you say, but I find them to be very killy and the Wolf Priest with Saga of the Warrior Born and Runic Armor rocks face! Of course he is expensive, but the Saga overcomes his low attack profile...I have a tournament this weekend though. I run 3 GH squads and 1 BC squad, but I am thinking I may drop the BC after reading all this... :-(
October 7, 2010 at 5:41 PM
I shy away from assigning a blanket statement to any unit in 40k. Blood Claws are not power houses for sure, but I have been satisfied with how they played. I know they are going to die, but they're taking people along with them.
The other reason I wouldn't completely abandon Blood Claws is that if you do, you eliminate 2 other squads: Swift Claw Bikers and Skyclaw Assault Marines.
October 7, 2010 at 5:45 PM
Tried sending it again Adam. In case you didn't get it I basically just said I've put some pictures of my army up on my blog: http://fromthefang.blogspot.com
October 7, 2010 at 6:55 PM
Am I wrong in thinking that Wolf Guard pack leaders cannot bea attached to Blood Claw units; just skyclaws and swiftclaws right?
October 7, 2010 at 7:25 PM
I've pretty much given up on Blood Claws and the sub-groups of Skyclaws and Swiftclaws. They are underperforming troops for a premium price. The additional attack in a charge isn't worth the extra points, let alone the fact that they give up their pistol attacks if they are in charge range during shooting. 3 WS/BS is horrible for the cost.
Grey Hunters are far better, and have better options, for the same cost.
October 8, 2010 at 3:14 AM
@anonymous wolf guard can be attached to blood claws and swiftclaw bikes but NOT skyclaws.
October 8, 2010 at 8:07 AM
WRONG WRONG WRONG! Sorry but you are all wrong!
Blood claws are AWESOME!
You don't need heaps, I run a squad of 8.
You don't need to footslog, I use a rhino.
And if you put them on bikes they're even better, I run 7 swiftclaws with an attack bike.
Then attach the pre-requisit wolf guard with power fist and give a claw a power fist. Advance your Grey Hunters in rhino's or Razorbacks, place the claws' rhino where the fighting's going to be thickest, and when that uber threat - that always gets through no matter how good your fire discipline is - engages your hunters. SMASH IT! With 6 powerfist attacks and a bucket load of normal attacks!
It will take some practice to get the rhino positioning right but thats just practice, or just use the bikes.
Yes Grey hunters are better all round -yaaaawn-
But if. No. When you need to counter attack, use the Blood Claws.
October 9, 2010 at 3:27 AM
Greys are better than Claws.
Sky and Swift Claws are also not very competitive.
Mech > Jumpers. The only exception to this is Bloods, and that is because they can add FC and FNP.
Bikes are not an assault unit. Bikes are a mobile shooting unit. Ultras do it well because they can combat-tactics away even if they do get caught. Bloods do it well because of FNP.
Claws shoot on 4s and 75% with tl
Marines shoot on 3s and 89% with tl
Marines pay 25 pts for a competent Marine. Wolves pay the same for one that only works well on the charge.
Marines Sgt costs 40 pts - 65 with a PF.
Wolf guard costs 53 - 73 with a PF.
Basically, by running Jumpers and Bikes, you are giving up what Wolves do well with [ Greys] for units that Ultras and Bloods do better.
It might work for you against your mates and at the club, but I'd be surprised if you can pull it off against competitive gamers.
While that may come across strong in the B&W on internet communication, it isn't meant to be harsh, but helpful
October 9, 2010 at 5:20 AM
Mathhammer alert:
5 Claws versus 5 Greys.
Killing boyz.
Claws volley and charge.
5 shots. 2.5 hit. 1.25 dead
20 attacks. 10 hit. 5 wound. 4.17 dead
= 5.42 dead.
Greys volley and charge.
5 shots. 3.3 hit. 1.67 dead
15 attacks. 7.5 hit. 3.75 wound. 3.13 dead
= 4.8 dead
Claws are 113% better on the charge. Excellent.
Wet-blanket time lol.
What happens after that? Claws get hit more easily.
If your Razor gets taken out, your Claws basically contribute nothing. Bolters double the reach of the unit.
You can also RF with the bolters if something is within 12" and avoid the assault. Sometimes this is a good thing :D
Having the option of 2 bolter shots and not getting hit back is nice.
If Claws were 14 and Greys 16 points, I think they'de become worthwhile. But at the same points, how can you not choose Greys?
October 9, 2010 at 8:09 AM
Funny how their game play matches the fluff
October 11, 2010 at 12:25 AM
A comment on bikes and Blood claws not being tournament competitive.
I've only ever entered one tournament. Emperors Legion here in Penrith Australia. Not sure how this tournament compares on a global scale, but I have been told that previous Australan Champions have played there, if that means anything at all.
In this tournament I had 2 wins, 2 losses and a draw (not sure where, if anywhere, on this blog I can post my army list. But i'd be more than glad to, because it uses a few different methods then what are usually used here).
I ended up with a total battle score of a lame 42 out of a possible 100 (5 battles max 20pts per battle). Only a 4 turn tabeling of an ork meganob army saved me any respect in this reguard. I learn't playing at your local club and playing at a tournament are two very different things!
However I did win best composition and best sportsman, which allowed me to achieve 15th (out of 50) overall, and walk away with over $100 in prizes from a $35 entry fee.
Will I ever get top battle points? Definately not without a bit more experience, and probably not with this army (which once again I would be more than willing to post). But was my army competitive?
Yes.
I am entering another tournament in November. Its called Tumult10 and they're calling it a 'campaign tournament'. Look it up at
40kcampaigns.com if you're intrested.
This is a cityfight tournament so, unfortunately, the bikes are staying home. As we all know, bikes and difficult terrain don't mix. But i'll be keeping the claws. ;)
November 2, 2010 at 10:43 AM
I disagree with the OP. Claws differ from Hunters just as assault troops differ from tactical marines.
Hunters are Jacks of all trades, and really good at it, but despite their cost effectiveness they have a hard time dealing with mass number of enemys and also with MEQ.
Hunters have about an 8% chance to kill a MEQ with each attack. The extra attack gives them an extra 33% killing power, nothing to be laughed at.
The other thing that this unit adds are bodies, something not all that abundant on our units.
A fully decked unit of claws is 250 points against 200 of Hunters. Thats 25% more expensive, that 25% gives you 50% more bodies/wounds and 100% extra killing power on MEQ.
Transport IS an issue, bassically i think it IS the issue, it comes down to whether you are willing or not to use the 275 points of the Crusader or not.
Some people dont like it because of the amount of melta running around. Personally i do like it, it makes for a nice all porpoise platform.
February 16, 2011 at 9:33 AM
I see this battle report to be nothing more than a bad dice roll day.
I slog, and my blood claws are kitted out by previous blog entries found on this site. I also keep them near a rune priest for a cover save.
(15 pack, 2 flamers, PW, WG w/ CM & PF, WP w/ RA & WTN )
If against low point/ high model count lists, I'll take a second BC pack armed like above.
I love my crazy red headed men, but my opponents are getting to the point of not playing against me no more :(
***
LOL! Men are cute & silly :D
April 26, 2011 at 3:29 PM
Most of the people defending claws are math-hammering completely wrong. You must include the grey hunter's shooting into any comparison. A grey might get 3 bolter shots without any return damage and a blood claw gets 0 shots.
At the same points cost bloods do NOT give extra bodies. You could footslog grey hunters as easily as claws. Nevermind even suggestions of claws in a landraider... That'd buy like 3+ grey squads.
Space wolves greatest strength is they can both rapid fire bolters and get 3 attacks due to counterattack. Blood claws don't utilize this.
September 26, 2011 at 1:01 AM
Could someone explain why you can't just put 14 Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest onto a Crusader and ship that off towards the nearest enemy?
October 3, 2011 at 4:31 AM
@ above: You can, but it'll cost a ton. You would be making your entire army around that. The guy above you pointed out that you could get 3+ squads of Grey Hunters for the same amount as your suggestion.
However, feel free to do whatever. Perhaps you'll get your point's worth or better.
March 1, 2012 at 7:23 PM
I don't think you understand... If you take two... only TWO drop pods, you are ensured to get at least one unit of blood claws into their lines on the first turn. I play against Tau, and I put my whole damn army into drop pods including; my wolf lord + his retinue, my Rune priest and his retinue, A venerable drednaught with all the flamers he can take, and an equal balance of Hunters to claws. Don't bitch about a unit just because they don't work for your strategy.
However, I only tell you this in confidence. if you drop the mandatory half of your army into your castlers line, they can't kill them all, so you wait until your turn, and if you go first your "Pre-game" dropee's can assault, so if you have the first turn, take it, and break their lines! I've won several local tournies like that!
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