Hi, Goatboy here throwing down a Guest article talking about my current favorite army right now, Space Wolves.I know my usual Space Wolves lists look a lot different than some other current play styles, so I wanted to go over my choices and explain why I feel they create an exciting and pretty successful list. I also want to mention some trends I am seeing and why I think they are not the best choices at this time.
First of all, let me throw down 2 lists, one for 1750 points and the other for 1500 points. In fact the 1500 points army would be the list I will most likely take to Las Vegas next year.
1750 - Thunder, Thunder, Thunder WOLVES HOOO!!!
HQ: Wolf Lord, Thunder Wolf, Saga of the Bear, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Wolf Tail Talisman, Fenris Wolves X 2 - 265
HQ: Wolf Lord, Thunder Wolf, Saga of the Warrior, Frost Axe, Storm Shield, Runic Armor, Wolf Tail Talisman, Fenris Wolves X 2 - 280
HQ: Canis, Fenris Wolves X 2 - 205
Troops: Fenris Wolves X 15 - 120
Troops: Grey Hunters (10), Meltagun, Flamer, MoW, Rhino - 205pts
Troops: Grey Hunters (10), Meltagun, Flamer, MoW, Rhino - 205pts
Troops: Grey Hunters (10), Meltagun, Flamer, MoW, Rhino - 205pts
Heavy: Long Fangs (6), ML X 3, HB X 2 - 130pts
Heavy: Long Fangs (6), ML X 3, HB X 2 - 130pts
Pts: 1745
1500 - Smaller Thunder Thunder Thunder Wolves HOOO!!
HQ: Wolf Lord, Thunder Wolf, Saga of the Bear, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Wolf Tail Talisman, Fenris Wolves X 2 - 265
HQ: Wolf Lord, Thunder Wolf, Saga of the Warrior, Frost Axe, Storm Shield, Runic Armor, Wolf Tail Talisman, Fenris Wolves X 2 - 280
Troops: Grey Hunters (10), Meltagun, Flamer, Rhino - 190pts
Troops: Grey Hunters (10), Meltagun, Flamer, Rhino - 190pts
Troops: Grey Hunters (10), Meltagun, Flamer, Rhino - 190pts
FA: Fenris Wolves X 15 - 120
Heavy: Long Fangs (6), ML X 3, HB X 2 - 130pts
Heavy: Long Fangs (6), ML X 3, HB X 2 - 130pts
Pts: 1495
As you can see, both lists revolve around a massive assault element, followed by a large amount of back up in 3 large troop choices as well as a good mix of anti vehicle with anti infantry. What ends up happening with these types of lists, is that the opponent is involved with the big fist of doom for 2 to 3 turns, giving you more then enough time to get all your troops into position. This also lets your Long Fangs get a few more turns of shooting that they might not otherwise have also.
Space Wolves is one of the few books that can really gives us, Super Heros. We actually have characters that seem greater then life. In fact, that is one of the reasons I play this army because I feel it gives me the type of Chaos Lords I would really want to play with/ I am also an extremely aggressive player and this type of lists gives me the playing style I enjoy to throw down with.
The way I play this list is the hammer unit (dogs + Spiderman, Thor, and Wolverine) is going straight at my opponent. The other parts move into positions to deal with any survivors that might make it out of the Superhero Team book beatdown that is coming towards them. It is a pretty straight forward list and it rewards players who have good target priority skills as well as those who are not afraid to lose 250+ point characters.
Different armies provide different challenges for the list. The new Blood Angels book really only has a few things I am worried about. A Blood Taloned dreadnought will always be a pain, as they can easily kill all your dogs and then slowly start to put wounds on your super heroes. Fear the Darkness is another one of those really good psychic powers versus half the armies in the game so it is another thing to have to worry about. This is why you see 2 to 3 Wolf Tail Talismans in the super unit. The assault troops are not much better then your own and for the most part, your Super Heroes can take out just about anything they throw down. Go for the throat and don't look back versus the Blood Angels. Space Wolves love an army that gets closer.
Imperial Guard can be a completely different game. If you are going first, start on the board. If you are going second, go ahead and reserve/refuse flank. If they are playing a blob army, then just throw your Super unit into them. They should do more then enough wounds to hamper the crap out of it and still leave guys to kill during your opponents turn. If you are playing the Mech Imperial Guard build, move up and split out your guys to hopefully kill 2 to 3 chimeras/squads as you break out. The Long Fangs will come in handy to pop stuff and hopefully your Super Unit can keep them busy for awhile. If they get 2 good rounds of shooting there isn't a whole lot you can do. The WolfTail Talismans are there to stop Psychic Battle Squad nonsense too.
Marine builds are usually ok. If they are running a Vulkan spam list, just know your Thunder Wolves don't care about strength 8. Go after the Land Raider that is housing the Thunder Hammer termies, get them to come out and pop them. You have a ton of attacks that hit first, and any one or two guys you get rid of means you will most likely crush and win combat. Thunder Fire cannons can be annoying as they slow the unit down, if they are bothering you split up and just run at them in 2 to 3 units and hope for the best. You have much better assault elements and ways to easily kill 5+ guys per assault. You also do not fear Power Fists so just run in like the crazy Wolves you are. The massed Razorback spam you are seeing is also not that big of a deal, as you have a big unit that can multi assault a large batch of them as well as they needing to only drive 6 to be effective. Your long fangs can also go a long way by popping them. Also your 10 man squads will easily destroy any of those 5 man weenies that pop out of their hard candy shell.
Orks are a problem for this army, as deff rollas can auto kill your characters as well as nob bikerz being an extremely hard unit to crack. Two of them spells trouble and you have to play extremely smart and efficient to try and deal with them. If they are playing one unit, throw your hammer into it and hope you can spam out a ton of wounds. Have your Saga of the Bear touch the warboss and hope your other guys can throw down a ton of wounds into the squad to have a mutual destruction effect. You have an extremely good invulnerable save so you should be ok. Lootas are also a problem as they have the range as well as the strength to put a ton of wounds into the squad and take out your floating wounds. The boys are not that big of a deal as a dog charge should easily put 14+ wounds into a squad of guys, not including any of the super heroes.
Eldar are a really annoying list to throw down against. A rune priest would be a big help, but most of the time they are not killing your opponent so I have taken them out. Eldar players if you want to know a great secret to kill Space Wolves, tank shock. Their leadership is lower and with 3 to 4 tank shocks a turn, you can easily break the army and chase them down the board. If you are playing versus a lot of Eldar locally, then you might want to look at a Rune Priest somewhere in there. A 100 points isn't too hard to get and you can dumb down some of the characters to fit one in. This is why I have been paying Long Fangs as I need some long range fire power to go out and touch some of those jerk flying machines.
Tau are another annoying list, as it really takes you getting there. If you roll low fleets as well as low difficult terrain, expect to be whittled down by massed plasma and missile pods. Also if they are rolling well on the 4+ saves on vehicles look for a long game. This is one of those armies that just needs some small point tweaking as well as unit changes up to be a much more viable list. It is a shame as they are one of the more interesting looking armies out.
Dark Eldar can be a big pain as they have lots of speed as well as some annoying heavy fire power. Just try to get there and punch as many of them as you can. It is the same with Necrons as once you get there don't expect to stay in combat as you crush a ton of the robots too. A lot of the older armies suffer from being over costed and this type of lists punishes those by having a nice amount of troops, long range fire power, as well as some of the better assault elements you could ever see in the game.
So there you have it, my thoughts on my list and why I like to play it. Space Wolves is one of the few books that really gives you the Super Characters you read about in the stories and the fluff. I think GW did a great job letting the Thunder Wolf keep your character alive versus a hidden powerfist. I think some of the other Space Wolves lists become to reactionary and really are missing the ability to really hurt an opponents army instead of just reacting to it.
If all else fails, mob the enemy with a ton of hitting. Plus you have two super characters that can hurt a ton of stuff still. I wanted to show lists that don't suffer from reduced points level games and still give you an insane amount of punch. Plus 3 fat scoring units should do well versus most things.
Adam: So there we are. Words of wisdom (and brutality) from the Goatboy himself.
While I'm concerned by the lack of power fists and Wolf Guard as well as some flamers appearing where I'd rather have melta guns, it looks like quite a fun list to run.
Even so, there's a lot of units in there that most of us haven't gotten around to building yet. So it goes to show, if you want to play an army competitively, you need to get Everything and furiously paint it so you can play with Whatever you want Whenever you want!
I've always been a big fan of the Space Goats army for the simple fact that they can be used to represent absolutely anything in power armour. It's slightly wrong, but very convenient. They may not be the most conventional or the prettiest army you'll see, but if it's pure playability you're looking for, you'd do well to follow Goatboy's example.
As for his Space Wolves army list, I'll leave that to you to decide. Either way, it's worth taking for a spin and I shall certainly be giving his Thunderwolf Character Cavalry unit a go!







15 comments:
April 21, 2010 at 5:46 PM
Definitely interesting lists. I just baulk at the expense of the characters. I would think 5 thunderwolf cavalry with a thunderhammer would do better than the 280 pt wolf lord in nearly all cases apart from against very tough characters (and for those you still have the remaining wolf lord.
Suppose I shouldn't critise it till I've tried it, but I share Adam's worries about the anti tank firepower (particularly the long range anti-tank).
Rathstar
April 21, 2010 at 6:12 PM
All your chars are strength 10 - so any hit you give the thunderwolf cav you kill one. And you are hitting better and wounding better. I have the full Thunder Wolf squad that I made and played with for while. What I noticed is that the characters always did a hell of a lot more then the expensive Thunder Wolf guys. Thus the cheaper dog set up, that is designed to just have wounds dumped off of it as I get close and deliver the packages.
The lack of fists are there because a 1 attack fist isn't worth 25 points. Neither is losing a Meltagun when you have to force in a WG who costs a lot more then just 25 points.
But this is from my large amount of playing with SW since the new book came out and how my army has fully evolved.
April 21, 2010 at 6:28 PM
Hi,
I didn't mean to come accross so negative, and I freely admit that your experience playing space wolves is far in excess of mine. It just seemed so odd to me to have so many points tied up in characters.
I agree the thunderhammer lord could easily take a unit of thunderwolf cavalry due to his invunverable save and saga of the bear, I was just thinking that against basic infantry a thunderwolf cavalry unit would do more damage than the thunderhammer lord or the frost blade in the first turn. I appreciate the frost blade lord would become an absolute beast in the 2nd round of a combat.
I'm not saying the list is bad, far from it. Some of the things I really like, such as the attached wolves to characters. Putting a wolf in base to base combat with a enemy squads powerfist would allow the probably allow the frost blade lord to carve up a whole tactical squad without taking any wounds.
The characters are expensive but they are very very tough. I'll have to give one a whirl.
How do you deploy the chacaters, are they all with the troop unit of wolves ?
Rathstar
April 21, 2010 at 6:34 PM
No doubt It works for you Thomas - Ive seen and heard enough of your batreps and talks regarding how ruthlessly efficient you are! I do love the uber chars! they are game changing - having them in this big squad together is intersting but, to me, its all eggs and baskets. Its a massive investment of points that I'm sure will get its points back time and again (once you know how to get tricksy with the shooting saves anyway :P ) I'm not sure if its a difference in game styles we have compared to our brothers across the pond, but most of the American stuff i see and hear is soo much more direct and seems a bit rock paper scissors if you know what I mean. A bit one dimensional but statistically uber vs the right circumstance/opponent.
Where I think the humble Brit lists are a bit more individually flavourful - I guess you would class it as sub optimal.
The other thing I notice is that the Guard leafblower that is soo popular in the states (like the adepticon coverage I have heard, 1/3 of the lists where basically founded by your winning principles)Havent really taken off - certainly have a lot of guard players but not many hitting 'the big time'as it were. Why do you suppose that is? Here id say chaos or orks run supreme but other there id suggest it was more nids and guard ? (from what i can gather n e hoo...
Thx for all the time you have spent giving so much to the WWW of gamers trying hard to get that edge!
MJ
April 21, 2010 at 7:07 PM
Its a freaking swarm of wounds. The HQ units are over the top and take on a wide variety of units while not having to worry about getting wounded themselves. They have taken a page from Ciaphas Cain's book of how to survive in the 41 millennium; surround yourself with cannon fodder at all times.
April 22, 2010 at 5:59 AM
The reason there is no leafblower here is that we play 1500 to 1750pt games. The leafblower is designed for 2000 to 2500pt games in which they have the pts to blow on a shit load of tanks.
I think the huge deathstars are a big hit in the us, but in the uk I think it will suffer. Dual lash (yes u get a few 5+ saves) will cause a huge problem. 2 lashes shud get 1 off, and that will push ur guys into a clump and further back, then pile on a load of plasma. Gazghul in wagons with his horde will tear it up with his 2+ inv save ignoring most of ur attatcks, and he can tear thru 1 of those wolf lords even with a 3+ inv, he only needs 1 wound due to str10.
Blood angels with mass baals to take the wolves off then lascannons, vindies, mephiston and fnp termies. There's a lot in the uk which counters the death stars so we tend to not bother with them. In a tourney its always going to be rps, so we tend to prepare with that in mind I guess! Also the meta here as stated is a lot different. Shud be interesting to see how the americans do at the etc with this in mind. The rules and pts and match ups will be a whole new thing for them. I may go just to see how it goes. Who's in the team america tom? Is jawa or fritz going? How bout stelek or urself?
Alex
April 22, 2010 at 6:56 AM
Well I will be able to find out aswell, long as the j0b keeps paying!
Is goatboy coming to Germany then?
Rich gits!
And yea leafblowers are 2k and upwards. I guess but they should still do better than they do in the uk - Its a very very nice codex after all.
Very interested to see how the lists differ @ etc. let alone play styles and everything else that could differ...
April 22, 2010 at 8:58 AM
They will never do well in the uk. 1.5k army lists are the main pts limit and they might hit 1750. A leafblower as far as I've seened just doesn't have enough of that *blow*. The problem is people try to fit a lot of anti-tank in 1500pts which is enuf to face guard, marines etc. 330pts for 2 manticors is already 1 quarter of the army, and that's for 2 tanks with av 12 which isn't hard for 6 oblits, lootas, lascannons, long fangs, dark lance, seer councils etc. eldar and terminato marines will tear through a leafblower at 1500pts!
As the the etc it isn't tht much I may pop over. Its 70 punds for the flight and 35 for the ticket
Alex
April 22, 2010 at 3:21 PM
from the states? Surely not - So in that case, why do the americans love the bigger games? where we are more suited to 1500 with a slow increase to 1750 being the normal or standard. Is it just coz you dont get much more out of a space marine army at 2k? like the problems DE and tau have in larger games - where as the guard start to 'shock and awe' at that price.
April 23, 2010 at 1:05 AM
My Wolf Wing would certainly 'shock and awe' at that price...
April 23, 2010 at 3:55 AM
No its 70 pounds from the UK to Germany lol.
April 23, 2010 at 4:08 AM
thats what I thought Alex... Even I can afford that...
The us team must be paying upwards of a grand each to getting in on in europe. That and all that Battlefoam...
Jacob - that's what I mean. There are some good point ranges for armies I think. 1k tau, 1500, DE, 2k guard!
Whats in your wolf wing?
April 23, 2010 at 8:36 AM
Nah it shouldn't be that much. Cheap flights from here to the US for a weekend is around £250, so it will most likely cost them around £300-400 each including hotel , the ticket etc.
April 24, 2010 at 2:47 AM
Hi Is it just me or could the lists save 15 points by the GH's taking the flamer first and the melta as a free second choice?
April 24, 2010 at 6:52 AM
Yes, a Grey Hunter pack with flamer, meltagun and Rhino is 185 points.
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