Friday, June 26, 2009

Ironclad Dreadnought VS Dreadnought

7:16 AM by Adam Smith ·
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Which is best? A regular Dreadnought or an Ironclad Dreadnought?

It's a tough decision when it comes to spending as little points as possible whilst squeezing the very best out of your Elite slots.

So I've decided to do a quick run down between the two Space Marine Dreadnoughts and sum up which is best and why.

To set the level of points to be spent, let's start with the more expensive of the two, which is the Ironclad. I'll run through each of the dreadnought variants, which weapons are good, which weapons are awful and which combinations you can't live without.

Space Marine Ironclad Dreadnought

The ironclad dreadnought comes with armour 13 front and sides, a seismic hammer with melta gun and a dreadnought close combat arm with storm bolter as well as extra armour and 'move through cover' for a total of 135 points.

While the ironclad lacks the long ranged weaponry of the regular dreadnought, it makes up for it with heavy armour, more attacks, better movement through cover and a more specialised roll for taking out enemy troops with flamers or tanks with its close combat weapons providing its quick enough to catch them.

Weapon options
replace storm bolter with heavy flamer = good
replace melta gun with heavy flamer = good for twin heavy flamer fun against troops
replace combat weapon with hurricane bolters = awful!
replace seismic hammer with chainfist = seismic hammer is better, so no.
take up to 2 hunter kilelr missiles = overpriced, so no.
take ironclad assault launchers = enemy power fists will hit last anyway, so no.

Beyond upgrading the storm bolter to a heavy flamer, I'd leave the ironclad as it is, unless you feel the need for 2 heavy flamers for flushing troops out of woods.

That sets the bar at 145 to 150 points.


Space Marine Dreadnought

The regular space marine dreadnought comes with forward and side armour values of 12, a multimelta and close combat weapon with built in storm bolter for a total of 105 points.

The space marine dreadnought has a massive selection of long ranged weapons to choose from, making it more versatile than the heavily armoured new ironclad model. Lower armour means its more vulnerable to anti-tank weapons, but equally likely to be blown away at close range by a melta gun. However, due to its wide selection of weapons, the standard dreadnought is able to adapt to more versatile battlefield roles.

weapon options
replace storm bolter with heavy flamer = good
replace multimelta with
-twin linked heavy flamer = no
-twin linked heavy bolter = no
-twin linked autocannon = perhaps
-plasma cannon or assault cannon = perhaps
-twin linked lascannon = good, but expensive!
replace close combat weapon with twin linked autocannon or missile launcher = perhaps
Take extra armour = YES!

The space marine dreadnought I would take as an alternative to the Ironclad would come with a multimelta, close combat arm with heavy flamer upgrade and extra armour. That's it! It comes to 130 points, which is 15 to 20 points less than the Ironclad.


The Role of Dreadnoughts in 5th Edition Warhammer 40K
In Warhammer 40k, competitive armies have always been about maximum performance for as few points as possible. Now, I used to swear by a twin linked lascannon and missile launcher for a dreadnought as a walking weapons platform, but now that we need heavy flamers, multimeltas, melta guns and a feircer concentration of tough units capable of close combat, the role of Dreadnoughts has quite dramatically changed -for the Space Marine Dreadnoughts at least. Ork Dreadnoughts were always stuck in a combat role and the Eldar Wraithlord was always incredibly versatile.

So sticking with having a 'versatile' unit, it's a tough choice between the standard Dreadnought with mulitmelta, close combat weapon, heavy flamer and extra armour at 130 points OR the Ironclad Dreadnougyht armed with close combat weapon, heavy flamer, seismic hammer, melta gun, extra armour, move through cover at 145 points.

One is an all-rounder, one is a close combat monster.

Similarities:
Both will tear apart a vehicle in close combat.
Both will decimate a squad in close combat (Ironclad gets +1 attack).
Both have extra armour so they can always move and charge.
Both have heavy flamers.
Both can take Drop Pods.
Both get destroyed by close range melta guns.

Differences:
The Ironclad can 'move through cover'.
The Ironclad has armour 13.
The Dreadnought is marginally cheaper in points.
The Dreadnought has a multimelta for range 24" and 2D6 armour penetration at 12".
The Ironclad has a melta gun for range 12" and 2D6 armour penetration at 6".

CONCLUSION
Both Dreadnoughts are very closely matched. The Space Marine Dreadnought is better at offence due to its versatile nature and longer ranged weapons, meanwhile the Ironclad Dreadnought is better at defence as an objective guardian in your deployment zone due to the short range nature of its armament and its tougher armour.

If they both deployed from Drop Pods, the Ironclad would be more survivable against enemy retaliations, but may find that its melta gun is out or range compared to the Dreadnought's multi melta for when it comes to tank hunting.

It's only in the following turn that either Dreadnought may get into close combat, but if your opponent is daft enough to let you charge his tank, you need to find more experienced opponents!

15 comments:

oni said...
June 26, 2009 at 9:15 AM

Good write up. I enjoyed reading that, thank you.

Kevin said...
June 26, 2009 at 12:01 PM

Great post Adam! Personally I tend to use Ironclad's because I love the thing. You really have to think about what role it will play in your list, though. For me, the dread acts as a distraction and tank hunter. Usually works well, but it has yet to live through an entire game (which isn't terrible seeing as it helps me win!)

Big Jim said...
June 26, 2009 at 12:41 PM

That's a great comparison.

I've been playtesting the TLAC adnd I must say that so far I'm digging it. My opponents have been completely underestimating this load out, until it's wacking their light armor and troops.

Mr Syxx said...
June 26, 2009 at 3:14 PM

I have to say I breezed the Article (mostly cause I play IG) but that first graphic is priceless. over all though good run down. I am debating weather or not to add one to my small Dark Angels reserve

Scott
BH Senior Editor

Anonymous said...
June 26, 2009 at 3:28 PM

I disagree with your assessment of the effectiveness of a normal Dread in CC with a unit. If the unit is hiding a PF, the Ironclad is vastly superior. AV12-AV13 is a huge step, and the extra attack gives him 25-50% more attacks per round. I also think HKs could work in the right build. Yes, they're expensive, but they can be fired on the first turn down out of a drop pod with your MG.

Parcival said...
June 27, 2009 at 1:10 AM

Yes, nice write up indeed. However, I am going to do an option that has been left untouched in your comparison: a Blood Angels Death Company Furioso Dreadnought that clocks in at 125 points. =)

I already own the official Furioso model, but I painted it red as a normal Furioso. However, I think the new Ironclad would look really cool in black with red crosses, so I am going to buy and paint one for my Death Company. =)

Ian said...
June 27, 2009 at 4:38 PM

You really don't want to play the ironclad unless you're drop-podding him. If you don't put him in a pod he'll spend a fair chunk of the game doing nothing but moving, and that's bollocks.

As far as dreadnought weapons go it's tough to do better than the assault cannon. The lascannon has better range and performs slightly better against tanks (but not much) but is vastly more expensive. The autocannon is worse than the assault cannon against every AV except 11, and also worse against infantry due to its lower volume of fire and the fact that it doesn't have rending.

Anonymous said...
August 19, 2009 at 7:39 AM

how the hell is the seismic hammer better than a chainfist.

chainfist gets 2d6 added when attacking veichles which is its primary use.

Anonymous said...
August 28, 2009 at 8:19 AM

i am going for a themed 2,000 Ultramarines army based on and orbital assault force so iam opting for lots of close-combat monsters and yes i will be having my ironclad ariving via drop pod.
i have an awesome tatcic of boxing in enemy vechiles in with serval drop pods so it has no were to go then the IC will 'go in for the kill' in the next assault phase. aslo the secimic hammer is better on 99% of vechiles becasue most vechiles only have a rear armour of 10 so the IC doesnt even have to role to penetrate, just dont glue the arms on so u can add the chain fist for taking out vechiles like Land raiders and Monoliths

Anonymous said...
August 28, 2009 at 8:28 AM

yer i agree about the sesimic hammer becasue all close quater attacks against vechiles are towards the rear armour and this also counts for walkers and that +1 on the vechicle damage table is just too awesome to not take

Anonymous said...
September 2, 2009 at 11:28 AM

The seismic hammer is better than the chainfist because your dreadnought is already strength 10. That means you only need a 4 to glance the highest armor in the game, with at least 3 attacks. Plus even with a glance you can wreck a vehicle witha seismic hammer. The chances of wrecking a vehicle, with a penetrating hit, also go from 70% to 50%, with the plus one on the damage chart.

I have to say the use of assault launchers is underestimated however. 15 poits for offensive and defensive grenades. If you attack into cover, against genestealers, or are assaulted by them, you'll know what I mean. Even alot of rending glances will kill armour 13 vehicles in 2 turns, I've seen it happen. 2 weapon destroyed and an immobilised result and your done. losing that extra attack for charging can change the face of a close combat encounter.

Anonymous said...
September 2, 2009 at 11:37 AM

Another minor point: The two dreadnoughts are being compared as having extra armour. While the standard Dread has to pay for it for 15 points, the Ironclad comes with it for free. This makes the points difference actually 120 for the dread, with extra armour and 135 for the ironclad. Thats a 15 point difference for a seismic hammer w/ extra attack, 13 armour and move through cover.

Anonymous said...
October 6, 2009 at 6:40 AM

err whats this about extra armour lettin them move then charge? they can already move shoot and charge extra armour just means that stunned becomes shaken but if u r usin cover well then u shouldnt need it :p to pricy

G said...
October 20, 2009 at 7:32 PM

Interesting and loved the street fighter pic, but not entirely relevant to a space wolves blog as they can't take an ironclad...

Pete W said...
January 12, 2010 at 4:04 PM

Another reason to skip the chainfist is that it replaces the DCCW. Since it follows the normal chainfist rules, that means that you must attack at Initiative 1. Perhaps a rules oversight but it would be an annoying one to get caught out on.

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